Moderator: We're back in the studio. This is our last session and we're going to talk about closing the programme. So, my first question is how do you review a programme?

Michael: Well, if you think about any work that you do, one of the main things you review is what's known as the big six. Time, cost, quality, risk, benefits, scope. So we're asking questions like, 'Are we-, have we delivered on budget and do we have any outstanding risks?' That's a big one because we're talking about change and uncertainty, there, there could well still be some big uncertainties around the work that's going on, so are they manageable? You know, is somebody gonna pick those up? But on top of all of that is looking at whether or not the stakeholders are happy, whether or not everybody involved is happy. We, we've talked about the idea that the stakeholders of the business and the stakeholders in it are gonna take this change on and deliver it off into the future. So, we need to make sure that they're happy and that they've been happy with the way everything's been run. So there's lots of different elements to reviewing a, a programme.

Moderator: So, when do you close a programme?

Michael: Do you know, that's, that's kind of a big question and it's something people often misunderstand. I suppose the key word to think about is you close the programme down when the programme management is no longer offering value. That's quite an innocuous-sounding phrase but it's actually loaded with a lot of meaning. So what I'm getting at here is you, you stop running it as a programme when running it as a programme is no longer useful. So if you think about, like, you've got twenty projects on the go at any given time and then you get towards the end of the programme and there's only one project left still running, and the programme management is now really just an overhead, that project can run on its own, it doesn't really need us anymore, so it's not adding value anymore to have programme (mw 01.36). So you could close down the programme when there's still work to be done, but that work can be done on its own. You know, it can-, it can just happen on its own, so they don't really need us. So we don't have to wait until the work's all been completed. What we need to look at is, is programme management still adding value? 'Cause it could be that you've only got one project left but the programme team are still providing connection with the stakeholders or providing advice and guidance that our particular project needs.

So, yeah, that's the key, is are we still adding value? And as soon as we're not, we can walk away, but it's important to recognise you haven't done the work. There is a bit of a challenge, which is that programmes can last, you know, five, ten, twenty years and you can find that staff has become, I suppose a good word would be institutionalised. You know, the-, you can have people who have joined the company and have done nothing but work on this programme. So then when you start saying the programme's gonna finish, you can get a certain amount of worry where people are like, you know, 'Well, what, what do I do next?'

Moderator: What's gonna happen to me?

Michael: What's gonna happen? Yeah, so it-, what that can equate to is that people are a bit reticent about closing the programme down. 'Oh no, there's still stuff to do.' But, but we need to, kind of, override that, to be honest. I mean, obviously we wanna worry about people's feelings but I'm talking about the programme team here. So we need to think about what we're gonna-, where they're gonna go next, but we do need to recognise some people might not wanna close the programme simply because they don't feel comfortable stopping the work now. That's not the same as does it still add value? We need to differentiate between them.

Moderator: So, why do we close a programme?

Michael: Well, probably the most obvious answer to that is because programmes are using money and they're using resources, and so closing the programme formally allows you to release those resources, send them back to the business. We're engaging with the business, remember, so the BCM, for example, has got a day job and they're working on the programme. So the sooner we can tell them, 'Look, we don't need you anymore. You can just go back to your day job,' the better it is for them because they'll be knocking themselves out every day trying to keep up with this. It also gives us an opportunity to review success. So we've got a point where we draw a line and we go, 'Okay, that's all the work done. So now let's look at it as a whole and see how it's going.' If you're trying to review success and it's still rumbling on, you're not really getting a clear picture of what's going on there. And finally we need to think about the future, because when we close the programme, we're gonna walk away and the business is expected now to run with it on their own, so we need to give them two sides of that, really. I suppose a plan so that they know what they've got to do next and the confidence that they can then take this on on their own and go with it. So when we close a programme down, we need to make sure there's a legacy there of, sort of, change management and understanding that we can work with.

Moderator: Michael, this is our last session and I found-, I found these sessions really informative and very helpful, so thank you very much.

Michael: No, you're welcome.

Moderator: And I have one last question for you. Do you think I'm ready for the exam?

Michael: Yeah. Yes, I do. We-, you, you've asked a lot of good questions and, and the key questions, as well, and, and hopefully we've answered them between us and so, yeah, I think you're ready.

Moderator: Thank you very much. That, that, that's the right answer. Thank you.

Expert Q&A: Program closure

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